Wow...it's amazing someone can get all that out of the Bible! It takes quite an imagination. As far as I know, the JWs are the only ones that have two classes of salvation. The Greek Orthodox believe that the fall of man happened because otherwise man could not have realized his heavenly potential. Thus, Adam fell so man could die, and Jesus came so that man could be redeemed to his full potential. That is actually biblical, but not the dual classes the WTBTS teach.
Cold Steel
JoinedPosts by Cold Steel
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Heavenly v. Earthly Class
by Cold Steel inreading another topic here on the anointed class of believers, i was wondering if anyone could point me towards a good article that might explain this more at length?
from what i've been able to ascertain, gaining the heavenly class status has sizable benefits over being an earthly class peon, right?
further, the john-class (anointed) at one time was considered part and parcel of the faithful and discreet slave (now reserved for the governing body-class).
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Heavenly v. Earthly Class
by Cold Steel inreading another topic here on the anointed class of believers, i was wondering if anyone could point me towards a good article that might explain this more at length?
from what i've been able to ascertain, gaining the heavenly class status has sizable benefits over being an earthly class peon, right?
further, the john-class (anointed) at one time was considered part and parcel of the faithful and discreet slave (now reserved for the governing body-class).
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Cold Steel
Reading another topic here on the anointed class of believers, I was wondering if anyone could point me towards a good article that might explain this more at length? From what I've been able to ascertain, gaining the heavenly class status has sizable benefits over being an earthly class peon, right? Further, the John-class (anointed) at one time was considered part and parcel of the faithful and discreet slave (now reserved for the Governing Body-class).
Now are all members of the GB part of the anointed? They must be somehow superior because they have consolidated power and manage to retain their jobs at Bethel while others tend to be expendable. But when all is said and done and the resurrection dawns, the heavenly class manages to live in the presence of God while everyone else inherits the earth. So after that, what then? What do the heavenly John-class people do that the angels can't do? Do they rule those on Earth? And if so, why would they need ruling?
These anointed are the ones who partake of the emblems while alive, but they don't enjoy any other status of their election in mortality. In fact, some claimants are ridiculed when they do partake. But does that status necessarily have anything to do with personal righteousness? When, during someone's life, are they anointed? At birth? Can't some people be rough around the edges and still be of the heavenly class? John the Baptist was as great as any prophet ever, but whoever's least in the Kingdom of Heaven is greater than he, right? This means (or used to mean) that John the Baptist was not of the heavenly class. But his greatness could nevertheless not be questioned. Is that correct?
Finally, is there any penalty for partaking of the emblems wrongly, or mistakenly? And are any people turned away when they attempt to partake?
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The New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures argues for more than one GOD
by smiddy ingen.1:26 "and god went on to say "let us make man in our image according to our likeness.....etc,etc,.. the key words here are "us" and " our" ,he is including other life forms just like him in using plurals.. he did not say " i" will make man in "my" image ,using the singular vernacular.
the same is also noted in gen 3:22 "and jehovah god went on to say " here the man has become like one of " us".
again he is using the plural and not the singlar language clearly showing their were other life forms on an equal footing to him.. also satan via the serpent also knew the difference between good and bad before he tempted eve , showing he was on a par with jehovah god in knowing that fact along with the other gods in heaven.. another scripture that comes to mind is 1 cor.8:5 "........just as their are many gods and many lords,,,".
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Cold Steel
The Bible does not state that God was ever alone. Instead, Moses refers to God as a plurality.
When we say that husband and wife are ONE, we don't mean that they are two manifestations of the same person. They become a single COUPLE. In the same way, GOD (Elohim) is the plural form of God and can be made up of multiple entities. Just as COUPLE signifies a plurality of elements (two), but, too, a oneness. Thus, "Let US make MAN in OUR image, after OUR likeness" or "MAN has become as one of US. There is nothing monotheistic about "WE."
But is the oneness of a couple the same as the oneness of God?
Absolutely, and the scriptures bear that out.
Remember when Jesus prayed to the Father (an act requiring two beings) concerning the TWELVE? He asked, “...that THEY may be ONE,” and here's the kicker, “even as WE are ONE.” In the SAME WAY that GOD is ONE, Jesus was asking that the TWELVE be ONE, which is the same way a COUPLE is ONE.
The scripture also declares that God made MAN in his image, MALE and FEMALE. It could be argued that there's a female element to God. After all, why does God need arms and legs, feet, nose, hands, eyes and so forth? And Jesus is said to be in the “express image” of the Father, so one cannot successfully argue that this is some figurative image. We need our bodies to function in a terrestrial environment; to breath, to propel ourselves from one place to another, to eat and to speak. And when we're resurrected, we come forth with physical bodies of flesh and bone (which is distinctly different than the corruptible “flesh and blood.”) Jesus was put to death and his flesh and blood body died. But he came forth from the tomb with an incorruptible body of flesh and bones.
But why would the Father have a body that looks like ours (or vice versa)? And why does Jesus have a resurrected physical body, while his Father allegedly has a body of spirit? (The scripture that states that “God is a spirit” is one of the suspect passages only found in later manuscripts, but I think the NWT keeps it, while leaving out most other suspect passages.
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Lying In Wait At a Bed & Breakfast
by Cold Steel ina few years ago while traveling in the northeast, my wife and i stopped in new haven, connecticut, at a b&b we'd reserved for the night.
no sooner had we unpacked and moved into the living room for tea and treats, our hosts began to talk about religion, and we learned they were jehovah's witnesses.
i didn't mind so much, but my wife was outraged that our hosts would use their place of business as a launching point to do missionary work.
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Cold Steel
I have no problem reasoning with JWs and boxing them, but my wife rightfully thought it was unprofessional to do what they did and the last thing she wanted was for me to debate them on any level. (At times like that I would have loved to have been able to do a Christopher Walken imitation!) Heh!
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Lying In Wait At a Bed & Breakfast
by Cold Steel ina few years ago while traveling in the northeast, my wife and i stopped in new haven, connecticut, at a b&b we'd reserved for the night.
no sooner had we unpacked and moved into the living room for tea and treats, our hosts began to talk about religion, and we learned they were jehovah's witnesses.
i didn't mind so much, but my wife was outraged that our hosts would use their place of business as a launching point to do missionary work.
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Cold Steel
Yep...we gave it a good review, but warned people to beware the preaching. It was otherwise a decent place. My mistake was in talking to them in the first place, while trying to be polite. That, alas, only encourages them!
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Lying In Wait At a Bed & Breakfast
by Cold Steel ina few years ago while traveling in the northeast, my wife and i stopped in new haven, connecticut, at a b&b we'd reserved for the night.
no sooner had we unpacked and moved into the living room for tea and treats, our hosts began to talk about religion, and we learned they were jehovah's witnesses.
i didn't mind so much, but my wife was outraged that our hosts would use their place of business as a launching point to do missionary work.
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Cold Steel
A few years ago while traveling in the Northeast, my wife and I stopped in New Haven, Connecticut, at a B&B we'd reserved for the night. No sooner had we unpacked and moved into the living room for tea and treats, our hosts began to talk about religion, and we learned they were Jehovah's Witnesses. I didn't mind so much, but my wife was outraged that our hosts would use their place of business as a launching point to do missionary work.
When they saw my wife was openly hostile to their endeavors, instead of dropping it, they sought to isolate me and ignore my wife almost as though she didn't exist. It didn't matter that she was seething, I'm sure contemplating their demise, they were now focused entirely on me. I didn't want this to go on, so I manufactured a reason to beat a retreat. And we did.
For the rest of our time there we had to avoid our hosts and we took walks and drove around.
Apparently this is considered okay and a great way to spread the word. But what would YOU have done? We were kind of stuck. My wife wanted to read in one of the living rooms but durst not go alone. I finally just asked our hosts to desist in religious discussion and they did, but we were surprised that they would use their B&B to fulfill their weekly stats.
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Since Some Were Asking About The Vast Apostate Army...
by Tuesday inhey everyone, a couple people were asking about the november 5th, 2017 reference in the last hitler as the leader of the watchtower parody video so i figured i'd swing by and post a link to the latest recruitment video for the vast apostate army.. all my other videos are for my daughter and to help her if she ever questions religion (or jws specifically), this one however is for me.
i always get a really big grin on my face when dustin talks about the vast apostate army and i really just want to set him off for a few videos.
so i think this outlines the purpose of the vast apostate army and gives you a cool chorus to sing along to.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=corqwanyuos.
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Cold Steel
Some of these stories are astounding. Why would the Society possibly want to protect sexual predators? And why haven't some of these parents taken matters into their own hands if the Society hasn't? Are the members supposed to work strictly through the Society when these things happen? What about the cops? And if that fails, I'd think a private chat in the back alley would be in order. Or a friendly outing in the woods.
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JW Headquarters Horror Story
by Vidqun ini discovered this on youtube, it's quite recent:.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cam-nzcaa_q.
the woman's story sounds believable and credible, but i just don't know.
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Cold Steel
This has all the hallmarks of repressed memories. I have some memories of my own from about three or four years of age and there are holes big enough to drive a Mac truck through. I don't believe a word of this women's account. She's reciting the type of memories a teenager might have and it sounds like something from a grade B movie.
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"You will never grow old in this present system of things" -- some campaign tools
by FatFreek 2005 ini am approaching 76 years old.
i can clearly recall that awake!
statement and similar during the pre-1975 hype -- "staying alive in '75", et al.
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Cold Steel
The question isn't whether the leadership said it, but that if the leadership did say it, can it be reconciled with its claims to divine inspiration? I'm a bit unsure as to how the leadership's claim to divine leadership was established anyway, but given that it was established, how do JWs reconcile what was clearly false prophecy with the leadership's authority?
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Paranormal Warning
by Cold Steel ini've heard some weird stories coming from jws about the paranormal.
i know about the warnings about items that come from unbelievers -- those don't interest me as much.
what i am interested in are actual experiences in stories of the paranormal you've heard or experienced yourself.
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Cold Steel
OrphanCrow > Yes. They are reflective anomalies of light.
Oh, you'd be a lot of fun at a campout!
You're right, of course. Remember that famed "face" on Mars. And the pyramids? It all went away when photographed in high resolution with better light and high resolution. Still, to say the paranormal is all imagination is also problematic. Some things, like the creaking television plastics and equalizing of pressure in water pipes, are explainable phenomena. Other things aren't so easy to explain away.
The WTBTS overdoes religion and the occult and creates an atmosphere of fear and a means of control. Coming from a Protestant background, I loved scary movies, Halloween and monster magazines. We had fun. But in the WT community, it's used to terrorize. If you swapped toys with classmates, anything you brought home might be suspect. Some JWs avoid yard sales, gifts from non-believers and shun books about other cultures and beliefs.
The occult has long been used to control people, partially because there's something within all of us. As long as we can explain it we can dismiss it. But regardless of how practical we all are in the daylight, let us experience something in the dark that we can't explain and we'll all react with fear. It's hardwired into all of us. You may say here and now that you wouldn't mind being locked into an abandoned prison or asylum to spend the night, but if it came down to it, we'd probably all chicken out rather than do it. Even though no one has ever been killed by a "ghost" or demonic entity, we're all hard wired by society, religion and our imaginations to fear them. Lights can flicker, pipes can creak and bumps can all be rationalized. But let the lights go out and our rationalization goes out the window!
And no one can change that.